"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#676

Post by ALBPelasgian »

Edhe nje burim tjeter po kaq me vlere...
Falemnderit, falemnderit dhe njemije here falemnderit, Mallakaster per punen e palodhur qe ben! Dokumenet italiane jane tejet te vlefshme dhe meritojne te behen publike me shume se te tjerat, per arsyen e thjeshte, se himariotet kishin kontakte tejdetare me sterene e Italise. Keshtu qe italianet ose kushdo tjeter qe ishte ne Itali, e kishte te qarte perkatesine shqiptare te Himarioteve. Edhe nje burim interesant e patem siperfaqesuar ne faqet e 'Arberia...'. Ka qene pikerisht e Kantakuzenit bizantin, qe perseriste pa kurrfare medyshje faktin e shqiptaresise se Himarioteve. Sa keq qe s'e kemi bere nje teme te pervecme (sikur ajo per Sulin, ose Janinen, psh) ku te mblidhnim ekskluzivisht dokumentet per Himaren!!!!
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#677

Post by Zeus10 »

Ju, ndoshta se keni vene re, por Frang Bardhi i numeron si qytete arberore, jo vetem Himaren, por dhe Selanikun dhe Shkupin, qe me 1635:

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#678

Post by Mallakastrioti »

Epirotet dhe gjuha e tyre!

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"De servorum Dei beatificatione et beatorum canonizatione et supplementum
Di XIV Benoît" -1776
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#679

Post by Mallakastrioti »

Epiri nje pjese e Shqiperise dhe nje pjese tjeter e Maqedonise, sipas Pierre d’Avity

"Pierre D'Avity (1573-1635) was the author of a number of geographical books, including the “Etats Et Empires Du Monde” (1629), and the “Neuwe Archontologia Cosmica” (1646).

Mos harrojme se me Maqedoni dhe maqedonas ne mesjete kur ka shkruar autori identifikohej vetem nje popull:Shqiptaret

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Marre prej librit:"Etats Et Empires Du Monde” (1629), kurse harta eshte e te njejtit autor, por shkeputur prej librit:
" Neuwe Archontologia Cosmica " Pierre d'Avity 1638 -
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#680

Post by Mallakastrioti »

Pirro Mbreti i Epirit, nje perkthim francez i vitit 1584 se vepres se Plinit "Historia e Botes", shkruan tekstualisht "Pyrrhus, Roy d'Albanie=Pirro Mbret i Shqiperise", pra edhe njehere ne shek 16. Epiri ndryshe njihej si Albania(Shqiperi) ne tekstet apo perkthime te ndryshme:

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L' histoire du monde, Volume 2
Gaius Plinius Secundus
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#681

Post by Zeus10 »

Dua te ndalem pak ne keqinterpretimin(me dashje do te thoja), qe ju behen teksteve gjate perkthimit. Per kete do te marre tekstin e Plutarkut per Pirron dhe do ndalem pak ne perkthimin e nje fjalie:

Θεσπρωτῶν καὶ Μολοσσῶν μετὰ τὸν κατακλυσμὸν ἱστοροῦσι Φαέθοντα βασιλεῦσαι πρῶτον, ἕνα τῶν μετὰ Πελασγοῦ παραγενομένων εἰς τὴν Ἤπειρον ἔνιοι δὲ Δευκαλίωνα καὶ Πύρραν εἱσαμένους τὸ περὶ Δωδώνην ἱερὸν αὐτόθι κατοικεῖν ἐν Μολοσσοῖς.
χρόνῳ δὲ ὕστερον Νεοπτόλεμος ὁ Ἀχιλλέως λαὸν ἀγαγὼν αὐτός τε τὴν χώραν κατέσχε καὶ διαδοχὴν βασιλέων ἀφ᾽ αὑτοῦ κατέλιπε, Πυρρίδας ἐπικαλουμένους: καὶ γὰρ αὐτῷ Πύρρος ἦν παιδικὸν ἐπωνύμιον. καὶ τῶν γνησίων παίδων ἐκ Λανάσσης τῆς Κλεοδαίου τοῦ Ὕλλου γενομένων ἕνα Πύρρον ὠνόμασεν. ἐκ τούτου δὲ καὶ Ἀχιλλεὺς ἐν Ἠπείρῳ τιμὰς ἰσοθέους ἔσχεν, Ἄσπετος ἐπιχωρίῳ φωνῇ προσαγορευόμενος.

dhe pikerisht fjaline e fundit:
δὲ καὶ Ἀχιλλεὺς ἐν Ἠπείρῳ τιμὰς ἰσοθέους ἔσχεν, Ἄσπετος ἐπιχωρίῳ φωνῇ προσαγορευόμενος
e cila eshte perkthyer nga filogreket:
From him Achilles came to have divine honours in Epirus, under the name of Aspetus, in the dialect of the country.
Ky lloj perkthimi, krijon idene e gabuar, qe gjuha e epiroteve, na qenkesh thjeshte nje dialekt i heleneve dhe si rrjedhim epirotet, na qenkesh nje dege e heleneve. E verteta eshte qe autori ka perdorur:

φωνῇ

qe ne shqip perkthehet(apo ndoshta dhe nuk ka nevoje per perkthim, sepse eshte shume e ngjashme):

folurën

pra perkthimi korrekt(nese pranojme qe teksti dhe gjuha jane autentike) eshte:

Dhe qe ky Akil ne Epir çmohej si nje Hyjni dhe quhej Aspetos ne te foluren e vendit, kur flitej per te.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#682

Post by Zeus10 »

Ja vlen te thuhet, qe gjithe emrat e permendur ne kete pasazh:

καὶ γὰρ αὐτῷ Πύρρος ἦν παιδικὸν ἐπωνύμιον. καὶ τῶν γνησίων παίδων ἐκ Λανάσσης τῆς Κλεοδαίου τοῦ Ὕλλου γενομένων ἕνα Πύρρον ὠνόμασεν.

jane emra iliresh, sipas kesaj gjenealogjie:

PYRROS(biri)<------LANASSA(bija)<-----KLEDAEUS(biri)<--------Yllos(biri)<--------HERACLIU(Herkuli)

Mos te harrojme qe Yllos ishte Patriarku i fisit te Hyllejve(Byllinasve) ilire, ai qe sulmoi Peloponezin themeluesi i Hyllejve Doriane, te paret Helene qe njeh historia.

22. ΙΛΛΥΡΙΟΙ. Μετὰ δῖ Λιβυρνούς εἰσιν ᾽Ιλλυριοὶ ἔθνος, καὶ παροικοῦσιν οἱ ᾽Ιλλυριοὶ παρὰ θάλατταν μέχρι Χαονίας. Χλωνίας τῆς κατὰ Κέρκυραν τὴν ᾽Αλκινὸου νῆσον. Καὶ πὸλις ἐστὶν ῾Ελληνὶς ἐνταῦθα, ᾗ ὄνομα ῾Ηράκλεια, καὶ λιμήν. Εἰσὶ δῖ καὶ οἱ λωτοφάγοι καλούμενοι βάρβαροι οἵδε ῾Ιεραστάμναι, Βουλινοὶ ῾Υλλινοί, Βουλινῶν ὁμοτέρμονες βουλλιν λιν οτέρμονες ῞Υλλοι. Οὗτοι δέ φασιν ῞Υλλον τόν ῾Ηρακλέους αὐτοὺς κατοικίσαι ms. αὐτοὺς τοῦ κατοικῆσαι εἰσὶ δῖ βάρβαροι. Κατοικοῦσι δῖ χερρὸνησον ὀλίγῳ ἐλάσσω τῆς Πελοποννήσου. Από δῖ χερρονήσου παραστὸνιον ὀρθὸν. ταύτην παροικοῦσι Βουλινοί. Βουλινοὶ δ' εἰσὶν ἔθνος ᾽Ιλλυρικὸν.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#683

Post by ALBPelasgian »

Sa keq qe studiuesit e mbare botes jane te denuar te sherbehen me tekste te keq-interpretuara dhe te perkthyera gabimisht me qellim! E kam verejte qe studiuesit filohelen per te arnuar dobesite e medha te pseudo-teorive te tyre gjithehere shpenzojne goxha energji per te neutralizuar faktet 'armike'.
Ishin pikerisht gomarlleqet e Hamondit dhe Erringtonit qe i bene nje perkthim te tille pasazhit ne fjale, ne menyre qe te pelqehej absurdi i tyre i 'helenicitetit' te epiroteve dhe deilirizimit te tyre.

Ja edhe studiuesit modern nga Greqia i kane hape beteje te ashper autoreve te lashtesise sa i perket origjines se nenes se Filipit, Euridikes :mrgreen:

Ja cka na thote shoku Elias Kapetanopoulos 8-) :

http://www.history.ccsu.edu/elias/Sirras.pdf
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Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#684

Post by Mallakastrioti »

Le te vime disi me vone (kur shteti grek tashme ishte formuar ) dhe te shohim ne fillim te shek 19, pikerisht viti 1861, kur eshte publikuar ky Fjalor frengjisht-greqisht me titull: "Lexikon Gallellēnikon, Volume 1
- M. G. Schinas,J. N. Lebadeus,-çfare informacionesh na jep:


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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#685

Post by ALBPelasgian »

Mallakastrioti wrote:Le te vime disi me vone (kur shteti grek tashme ishte formuar ) dhe te shohim ne fillim te shek 19, pikerisht viti 1861, kur eshte publikuar ky Fjalor frengjisht-greqisht me titull: "Lexikon Gallellēnikon, Volume 1
- M. G. Schinas,J. N. Lebadeus,-çfare informacionesh na jep:
Hmmm...n'siklet i ke vene bizantinet, o Mallakaster! Shprehjet 'nacionalist' 'pro-shqiptar' 'anti-grek' ata ne goje i kane, porse s'dine kesaj rradhe ndaj kujt t'i drejtojne. U ka humbur busulla :P
Por prape ata do te ngushellohen: M. G. Schinas dhe J. N. Lebadeu duhet te kene qene te manipuluar nga ndonje arvanit i mallkuar :P :D

Falemnderit Mallakaster!

P.S: Eshte akoma me mire t'i perqendrojme kerkimet edhe ne vete burimet 'greke' sidomos para vitit 1913. Duke i cituar burimet e bizantineve apo dashamireve te tyre europian - i jipet nje goditje e rende pretendimeve te tyre.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#686

Post by Mallakastrioti »

P.S: Eshte akoma me mire t'i perqendrojme kerkimet edhe ne vete burimet 'greke' sidomos para vitit 1913. Duke i cituar burimet e bizantineve apo dashamireve te tyre europian - i jipet nje goditje e rende pretendimeve te tyre.
[/quote]

Mire atehere Alb. ja po i kenaqim neo-bizantinet edhe me nje tekst shkruar pikerisht prej nje Mitropoliti grek te Athines quajtur Meletios, ku ne pershkrimin gjeografik qe ben per "ALVANIA"=SHQIPERIA, nuk i ndan as Ilirine, as Maqedonine e as Epirin si truaje te banuara prej shqiptareve:

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"Meletios Geōgraphia palaia kai nea"
Meletios

Meletios, Metropolitan of Athens, 1661-1714
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#687

Post by Mallakastrioti »

Kam pershtypjen se me kete do u vije disi hidhur me te vertet neo-grekeve. Le te analizojme me tej informacionet qe na jep Meletios ne librin e tij "Geōgraphia palaia kai nea", ku ne faqen 278 eshte pikerisht ky citim:

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Ku eshte duke pershkruar Thesprotine, pra Camerine dhe pikerisht Sulin e qarte na thote qe (shek. 17) aty kane banuar DYZET MIJE (40 000 ) Shqiptare:

"Tessarakonta xiliadas Alvaniko ...
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#688

Post by Mallakastrioti »

Ne perkthimin e teksteve te lashta kur per Epirin nenkuptohej Shqiperia. Marre prej librit:
" Della geografia trasportata al morale. Del padre Daniello Bartoli della compagnia di Giesu
Milano
Viti: 1665

Autor: Bartoli Daniello

"...dhe ketu duke rikerkuar gjykimin e Shipionit, siper kujt, dhe sa sipas tij ishin mjeshtrat (udheheqes ushtarak) me te konsumuar ne kete profesion: rimerr (fjalen) menjehere Anibali: Une tre numeroj per te perkryer; dhe vetem bota mund te thote te kete: dhe jane, Aleksandri i Madh Mbreti i Maqedonise, PIRRO MBRETI I SHQIPERISE, dhe une i treti."

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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#689

Post by Arbëri »

Konrad Olbricht
F. Hirt, 1921 - Science - 167 pages

.... pasardhesit e epiroteve( Pirro) dhe ilireve duhen te jene Shqiptaret .

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“Nëse doni të zbuloni historinë para Krishtit dhe
shkencat e asaj kohe, duhet të studioni gjuhën shqipe !"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - albanolog, matematicient, filozof gjerman
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#690

Post by faon perrovarri »

Historia ka nje fakt ´brutal´,shum ´arrogant´ per te gjithe ata qe bejne sikur e njohin ate ;qe prej MOLLOSEVE dhe deri ne vitin 1912 nuk sjell ndonje fakt te konfliktit shqiptaro-grek ,d.m.th qe nermoren ekspansione hegjemoniste ne dem te njeri tjetrit.Si perfundim kemi ose nuk kishim as shqiptar dhe as grek, ose keto vise banoheshin per nga hera nga i njejti grupim shoqeror i cili u diferencua ne vijim nga mentalizmi fetar .Historia eshte e qarte ,mendja e njeriut kerkon ta shtremberoj.
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