"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Albanians in the 7th century BC ????

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.

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Albanians in the 7th century BC ????


Post by KAONIAN » Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:45 am

Libri është i 1780ës dhe është përkthim i historisë së Romës e shkruar nga Eutropius (vdiq në 399) ku thuhet se Albanët të ken humb një betej nga Tullus Hostillius në pikën dymbëdhjet në afërsi të Romës(???)
Alba Longa ??


Τριτος διαδεχεται την βασιλειαν Τουλος Οσιλλιος, υπο τουτω παλιν η περι τους πολεμους επανηλθε σπουδη. νικωνται γουν Αλβανοι μαχη, της Ρωμης δυοκαιδεκα διεσωτες σημειοις. (μιλια καλουσιν αυτα Ρωμαιοι τα χιλια γαρ βηματα ουτως ονομαζουσι, τοσουτοις βημασι σημετρουμενοι το σημειον)

Title Παιανιου μεταφρασις εἰς την του Εὐτροπιου ῥωμαικην ἱστοριαν. In usum scholarum edidit indicemque omnium verborum adjecit I. F. S. Kaltwasser
Published 1780
Original from The British Library
Digitized 3 Nov 2015

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QxR ... B9&f=false

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Re: Albanians in the 7th century BC ????


Post by Zeus10 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:28 am

Kjo eshte lufta midis Albaneve te Romes dhe latinëve, qe nga ana e tyre, ja dedikonin origjinën, pikërisht këtyre albanëve. Nje duel tresh, u zgjodh per te shmangur gjakderdhjen e madhe, midis perfaqsuesve te dy popujve, Curiati dhe Horiati, qe perfundoi me fitoren e keture te fundit, si perfaqsues te latineve, duke i dhene fund shkelqimit te albanëve. Tit Livi ka shkruajtur per keto ndodhi, qe une mendoj jane mitologjike.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Albanians in the 7th century BC ????


Post by KAONIAN » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:34 pm

Atëhere pas ka patur Alban në lashtësi po në që quhemi kështu nuk kemi lidhje me ta. :x

Plus që në kët libër thotë që Albania e Kaukazit është koloni e Albanve të Italisë me udhëheqësë Herkulin

Ndërsa këtu Albanët figurojnë si baballarët e Latinve.

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Re: Albanians in the 7th century BC ????


Post by Zeus10 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:09 am

KAONIAN wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:34 pm
Atëhere pas ka patur Alban në lashtësi po në që quhemi kështu nuk kemi lidhje me ta. :x

Plus që në kët libër thotë që Albania e Kaukazit është koloni e Albanve të Italisë me udhëheqësë Herkulin

Ndërsa këtu Albanët figurojnë si baballarët e Latinve.
Po, sipas ketyre rrefimeve ka pasur. Problemi eshte, se duhen situr elementet mitologjike ne te, se bashku me percaktimin e drejte te lidhjeve midis Albanive te shumta, ne kohe dhe vende te ndryshme.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Albanians in the 7th century BC ????


Post by Zeus10 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:51 am

Ja ku eshte libri I mesiperm i perkthyer ne anglisht.

After that the people appointed as King Tullus Hostilius,
the grandson of that Hostilius who had made the noble stand against
the Sabines at the foot of the citadel: the fathers confirmed the
choice. He was not only unlike the preceding king, but even of a more
warlike disposition than Romulus. Both his youth and strength, and,
further, the renown of his grandfather, stimulated his ambition.
Thinking therefore that the state was deteriorating through ease,
he everywhere sought for an opportunity of stirring up war. It so
happened that some Roman and Alban peasants mutually plundered each
other's lands. Gaius Cluilius at that time was in power at Alba. From
both sides ambassadors were sent almost at the same time, to demand
satisfaction. Tullus had ordered his representatives to attend to
their instructions before anything else. He knew well that the Alban
would refuse, and so war might be proclaimed with a clear conscience.
Their commission was executed in a more dilatory manner by the Albans:
being courteously and kindly entertained by Tullus, they gladly took
advantage of the king's hospitality. Meanwhile the Romans had both
been first in demanding satisfaction, and upon the refusal of the
Alban, had proclaimed war upon the expiration of thirty days: of this
they gave Tullus notice. Thereupon he granted the Alban ambassadors an
opportunity of stating with what demands they came. They, ignorant of
everything, at first wasted some time in making excuses: That it was
with reluctance they would say anything which might be displeasing
to Tullus, but they were compelled by orders: that they had come to
demand satisfaction: if this was not granted, they were commanded to
declare war. To this Tullus made answer, "Go tell your king, that the
king of the Romans takes the gods to witness, that, whichever of the
two nations shall have first dismissed with contempt the ambassadors
demanding satisfaction, from it they [the gods] may exact atonement
for the disasters of this war." This message the Albans carried home.

Preparations were made on both sides with the utmost vigour for a war
very like a civil one, in a manner between parents and children, both
being of Trojan stock: for from Troy came Lavinium, from Lavinium,
Alba, and the Romans were descended from the stock of the Alban kings.

However, the result of the war rendered the quarrel less distressing,
for the struggle never came to regular action, and when the buildings
only of one of the cities had been demolished, the two states were
incorporated into one. The Albans first invaded the Roman territories
with a large army. They pitched their camp not more than five miles
from the city, and surrounded it with a trench, which, for several
ages, was called the Cluilian trench, from the name of the general,
till, by lapse of time, the name, as well as the event itself, was
forgotten. In that camp Cluilius, the Alban king, died: the Albans
created Mettius Fufetius dictator. In the meantime Tullus, exultant,
especially at the death of the king, and giving out that the supreme
power of the gods, having begun at the head, would take vengeance on
the whole Alban nation for this impious war, having passed the enemy's
camp in the night-time, marched with a hostile army into the Alban
territory. This circumstance drew out Mettius from his camp: he led
his forces as close as possible to the enemy; thence he despatched
a herald and commanded him to tell Tullus that a conference was
expedient before they came to an engagement; and that, if he would
give him a meeting, he was certain he would bring forward matters
which concerned the interests of Rome no less than of Alba. Tullus did
not reject the offer: nevertheless, in case the proposals made should
prove fruitless, he led out his men in order of battle: the Albans
on their side marched out also. After both armies stood drawn up
in battle array, the chiefs, with a few of the principal officers,
advanced into the midst. Then the Alban began as follows: "That
injuries and the non-restitution of property claimed according to
treaty is the cause of this war, methinks I have both heard our king
Cluilius assert, and I doubt not, Tullus, but that you allege the
same. But if the truth must be told, rather than what is plausible, it
is thirst for rule that provokes two kindred and neighbouring states
to arms. Whether rightly or wrongly, I do not take upon myself to
determine: let the consideration of that rest with him who has begun
the war. As for myself, the Albans have only made me their leader for
carrying on that war. Of this, Tullus, I would have you advised: how
powerful the Etruscan state is around us, and around you particularly,
you know better than we, inasmuch as you are nearer to them. They are
very powerful by land, far more so by sea. Recollect that, directly
you shall give the signal for battle, these two armies will be the
object of their attention, that they may fall on us when wearied and
exhausted, victor and vanquished together. Therefore, for the love of
heaven, since, not content with a sure independence, we are running
the doubtful hazard of sovereignty and slavery, let us adopt some
method, whereby, without great loss, without much bloodshed of either
nation, it may be decided which is to rule the other." The proposal
was not displeasing to Tullus, though both from his natural bent, as
also from the hope of victory, he was rather inclined to violence.
After consideration, on both sides, a plan was adopted, for which
Fortune herself afforded the means of execution.

It happened that there were in the two armies at that time three
brothers born at one birth, neither in age nor strength ill-matched.
That they were called Horatii and Curiatii is certain enough, and
there is hardly any fact of antiquity more generally known; yet in a
manner so well ascertained, a doubt remains concerning their names, as
to which nation the Horatii, to which the Curiatii belonged. Authors
incline to both sides, yet I find a majority who call the Horatii
Romans: my own inclination leads me to follow them. The kings arranged
with the three brothers that they should fight with swords each in
defence of their respective country; assuring them that dominion
would rest with those on whose side victory should declare itself. No
objection was raised; the time and place were agreed upon. Before the
engagement began, a compact was entered into between the Romans and
Albans on these conditions, that that state, whose champions should
come off victorious in the combat, should rule the other state without
further dispute. Different treaties are made on different conditions,
but in general they are all concluded with the same formalities. We
have heard that the treaty in question was then concluded as follows,
nor is there extant a more ancient record of any treaty. The herald
asked King Tullus, "Dost thou command me, O king, to conclude a
treaty with the pater patratus of the Alban people?" On the king so
commanding him he said, "I demand vervain of thee, O king." The king
replied, "Take some that is pure." The herald brought a pure blade of
grass from the citadel; then again he asked the king, "Dost thou, O
king, appoint me the royal delegate of the Roman people, the Quirites,
and my appurtenances and attendants?" The king replied, "So far as
it may be done without detriment to me and to the Roman people, the
Quirites, I do so." The herald was Marcus Valerius, who appointed
Spurius Fusius pater patratus,[21] touching his head and hair with
the vervain.[22] The pater patratus was appointed ad iusiurandum
patrandum, that is, to ratify the treaty; and he went through it in a
lengthy preamble, which, being expressed in a long set form, it is not
worth while to repeat. After having set forth the conditions, he said:
"Hear, O Jupiter; hear, O pater patratus of the Alban people, and ye,
O Alban people, give ear. As those conditions, from first to last,
have been publicly recited from those tablets or wax without wicked
or fraudulent intent, and as they have been most correctly understood
here this day, the Roman people will not be the first to fail to
observe those conditions. If they shall be the first to do so by
public consent, by fraudulent intent, on that day do thou, O Jupiter,
so strike the Roman people, as I shall here this day strike this
swine; and do thou strike them so much the more, as thou art more
mighty and more powerful." When he said this, he struck the swine with
a flint stone. The Albans likewise went through their own set form and
oath by the mouth of their own dictator and priests.

The treaty being concluded, the twin-brothers, as had been agreed,
took arms. While their respective friends exhorted each party,
reminding them that their country's gods, their country and parents,
all their fellow-citizens both at home and in the army, had their eyes
then fixed on their arms, on their hands, being both naturally brave,
and animated by the shouts and exhortations of their friends, they
advanced into the midst between the two lines. The two armies on both
sides had taken their seats in front of their respective camps, free
rather from danger for the moment than from anxiety: for sovereign
power was at stake, dependent on the valour and fortune of so few.
Accordingly, therefore, on the tip-toe of expectation, their attention
was eagerly fixed on a spectacle far from pleasing. The signal was
given: and the three youths on each side, as if in battle array,
rushed to the charge with arms presented, bearing in their breasts the
spirit of mighty armies. Neither the one nor the other heeded their
personal danger, but the public dominion or slavery was present to
their mind, and the thought that the fortune of their country would be
such hereafter as they themselves should have made it. Directly their
arms clashed at the first encounter, and their glittering swords
flashed, a mighty horror thrilled the spectators; and, as hope
inclined to neither side, voice and breath alike were numbed. Then
having engaged hand to hand, when now not only the movements of their
bodies, and the indecisive brandishings of their arms and weapons, but
wounds also and blood were seen, two of the Romans fell lifeless, one
upon the other, the three Albans being wounded. And when the Alban
army had raised a shout of joy at their fall, hope had entirely by
this time, not however anxiety, deserted the Roman legions, breathless
with apprehension at the dangerous position of this one man, whom the
three Curiatii had surrounded. He happened to be unhurt, so that,
though alone he was by no means a match for them all together, yet
he was full of confidence against each singly. In order therefore to
separate their attack, he took to flight, presuming that they would
each pursue him with such swiftness as the wounded state of his body
would permit. He had now fled a considerable distance from the place
where the fight had taken place, when, looking back, he perceived that
they were pursuing him at a great distance from each other, and that
one of them was not far from him. On him he turned round with great
fury, and while the Alban army shouted out to the Curiatii to succour
their brother, Horatius by this time victorious, having slain his
antagonist, was now proceeding to a second attack. Then the Romans
encouraged their champion with a shout such as is wont to be raised
when men cheer in consequence of unexpected success; and he hastened
to finish the combat. Wherefore before the other, who was not far off,
could come up to him, he slew the second Curiatius also. And now, the
combat being brought to equal terms, one on each side remained, but
unequally matched in hope and strength. The one was inspired with
courage for a third contest by the fact that his body was uninjured by
a weapon, and by his double victory: the other dragging along his body
exhausted from his wound, exhausted from running, and dispirited by
the slaughter of his brothers before his eyes, thus met his victorious
antagonist. And indeed there was no fight. The Roman, exulting, cried:
"Two I have offered to the shades of my brothers: the third I will
offer to the cause of this war, that the Roman may rule over the
Alban." He thrust his sword down from above into his throat, while he
with difficulty supported the weight of his arms, and stripped him
as he lay prostrate. The Romans welcomed Horatius with joy and
congratulations; with so much the greater exultation, as the matter
had closely bordered on alarm. They then turned their attention to the
burial of their friends, with feelings by no means the same: for the
one side was elated by the acquisition of empire, the other brought
under the rule of others: their sepulchres may still be seen in the
spot where each fell; the two Roman in one place nearer Alba, the
three Alban in the direction of Rome, but situated at some distance
from each other, as in fact they had fought.

Before they departed from thence, when Mettius, in accordance with the
treaty which had been concluded, asked Tullus what his orders were,
he ordered him to keep his young men under arms, for he intended to
employ them, if a war should break out with the Veientes. After this
both armies were led away to their homes. Horatius marched in front,
carrying before him the spoils of the three brothers: his maiden
sister, who had been betrothed to one of the Curiatii, met him before
the gate Capena;[23] and having recognised on her brother's shoulders
the military robe of her betrothed, which she herself had worked, she
tore her hair, and with bitter wailings called by name on her deceased
lover. The sister's lamentations in the midst of his own victory, and
of such great public rejoicings, raised the ire of the hot-tempered
youth. So, having drawn his sword, he ran the maiden through the body,
at the same time reproaching her with these words: "Go hence with thy
ill-timed love to thy spouse, forgetful of thy brothers that are dead,
and of the one who survives--forgetful of thy country. So fare every
Roman woman who shall mourn an enemy." This deed seemed cruel to the
fathers and to the people; but his recent services outweighed its
enormity. Nevertheless he was dragged before the king for judgment.
The king, however, that he might not himself be responsible for a
decision so melancholy, and so disagreeable in the view of the people,
or for the punishment consequent on such decision, having summoned
an assembly of the people, declared, "I appoint, according to law,
duumvirs to pass sentence on Horatius for treason." The law was of
dreadful formula. "Let the duumvirs pass sentence for treason. If he
appeal from the duumvirs, let him contend by appeal; if they shall
gain the cause, let the lictor cover his head, hang him by a rope
on the accursed tree, scourge him either within the pomerium,[24]or
without the pomerium." The duumvirs appointed in accordance with this
decision, who did not consider that, according to that law, they could
acquit the man even if innocent, having condemned him, then one of
them said: "Publius Horatius, I judge thee guilty of treason. Lictor,
bind his hands." The lictor had approached him, and was commencing to
fix the rope round his neck. Then Horatius, on the advice of Tullus,
a merciful interpreter of the law, said, "I appeal." Accordingly the
matter was contested before the people as to the appeal. At that trial
the spectators were much affected, especially on Publius Horatius
the father declaring that he considered his daughter to have been
deservedly slain; were it not so, that he would by virtue of his
authority as a father have inflicted punishment on his son. He then
entreated them that they would not render him childless, one whom but
a little while ago they had beheld blessed with a fine progeny. During
these words the old man, having embraced the youth, pointing to the
spoils of the Curiatii hung up in that place which is now called Pila
Horatia,[25] "Quirites," said he, "can you bear to see bound beneath
the gallows, amid scourgings and tortures, the man whom you just now
beheld marching decorated with spoils and exulting in victory--a sight
so shocking that even the eyes of the Albans could scarcely endure it?
Go then, lictor, bind those hands, which but a little while since,
armed, won sovereignty for the Roman people. Go, cover the head of the
liberator of this city: hang him on the accursed tree: scourge him,
either within the pomerium, so it be only amid those javelins and
spoils of the enemy, or without the pomerium, so it be only amid the
graves of the Curiatii. For whither can you lead this youth, where his
own noble deeds will not redeem him from such disgraceful punishment?"
The people could not withstand either the tears of the father, or the
spirit of the son, the same in every danger, and acquitted him more
from admiration of his bravery, than on account of the justice of his
cause. But that so clear a murder might be at least atoned for by some
expiation, the father was commanded to expiate the son's guilt at the
public charge. He, having offered certain expiatory sacrifices, which
were ever after continued in the Horatian family, and laid a beam
across the street, made the youth pass under it, as under the yoke,
with his head covered. This beam remains even to this day, being
constantly repaired at the public expense; it is called Sororium
Tigillum (Sister's Beam). A tomb of square stone was erected to
Horatia in the spot where she was stabbed and fell.

However, the peace with Alba did not long continue. The
dissatisfaction of the populace at the fortune of the state having
been intrusted to three soldiers, perverted the wavering mind of the
dictator; and since straightforward measures had not turned out well,
he began to conciliate the affections of the populace by treacherous
means. Accordingly, as one who had formerly sought peace in time of
war, and was now seeking war in time of peace, because he perceived
that his own state possessed more courage than strength, he stirred
up other nations to make war openly and by proclamation: for his own
people he reserved the work of treachery under the show of allegiance.
The Fidenates, a Roman colony,[26] having taken the Veientes into
partnership in the plot, were instigated to declare war and take up
arms under a compact of desertion on the part of the Albans. When
Fidenae had openly revolted, Tullus, after summoning Mettius and his
army from Alba, marched against the enemy. When he crossed the Anio,
he pitched his camp at the conflux of the rivers.[27] Between that
place and Fidenae, the army of the Veientes had crossed the Tiber.
These, in the line of battle, also occupied the right wing near the
river; the Fidenates were posted on the left nearer the mountains.
Tullus stationed his own men opposite the Veientine foe; the Albans
he posted to face the legion of the Fidenates. The Alban had no more
courage than loyalty. Therefore neither daring to keep his ground, nor
to desert openly, he filed off slowly to the mountains. After this,
when he supposed he had advanced far enough, he led his entire army
uphill, and still wavering in mind, in order to waste time, opened
his ranks. His design was, to direct his forces to that side on which
fortune should give success. At first the Romans who stood nearest
were astonished, when they perceived their flanks were exposed by the
departure of their allies; then a horseman at full gallop announced
to the king that the Albans were moving off. Tullus, in this perilous
juncture, vowed twelve Salii and temples to Paleness and Panic.
Rebuking the horseman in a loud voice, so that the enemy might hear
him plainly, he ordered him to return to the ranks, that there was no
occasion for alarm; that it was by his order that the Alban army was
being led round to fall on the unprotected rear of the Fidenates. He
likewise commanded him to order the cavalry to raise their spears
aloft; the execution of this order shut out the view of the retreating
Alban army from a great part of the Roman infantry. Those who saw it,
believing that it was even so, as they had heard from the king, fought
with all the greater valour. The alarm was transferred to the enemy;
they had both heard what had been uttered so loudly, and a great part
of the Fidenates, as men who had mixed as colonists with the Romans,
understood Latin. Therefore, that they might not be cut off from the
town by a sudden descent of the Albans from the hills, they took to
flight. Tullus pressed forward, and having routed the wing of the
Fidenates, returned with greater fury against the Veientes, who were
disheartened by the panic of the others: they did not even sustain
his charge; but the river, opposed to them in the rear, prevented a
disordered flight. When their flight led thither, some, shamefully
throwing down their arms, rushed blindly into the river; others, while
lingering on the banks, undecided whether to fight or flee, were
overpowered. Never before was a more desperate battle fought by the

Then the Alban army, which had been a mere spectator of the fight,
was marched down into the plains. Mettius congratulated Tullus on his
victory over the enemy; Tullus on his part addressed Mettius with
courtesy. He ordered the Albans to unite their camp with that of the
Romans, which he prayed heaven might prove beneficial to both; and
prepared a purificatory sacrifice for the next day. As soon as it
was daylight, all things being in readiness, according to custom, he
commanded both armies to be summoned to an assembly. The heralds,
beginning at the farthest part of the camp, summoned the Albans first.
They, struck also with the novelty of the thing, in order to hear the
Roman king deliver a speech, crowded next to him. The Roman forces,
under arms, according to previous arrangement, surrounded them; the
centurions had been charged to execute their orders without delay.
Then Tullus began as follows: "Romans, if ever before, at any other
time, in any war, there was a reason that you should return thanks,
first to the immortal gods, next to your own valour, it was
yesterday's battle. For the struggle was not so much with enemies as
with the treachery and perfidy of allies, a struggle which is more
serious and more dangerous. For--that you may not be under a mistaken
opinion--know that it was without my orders that the Albans retired to
the mountains, nor was that my command, but a stratagem and the mere
pretence of a command: that you, being kept in ignorance that you were
deserted, your attention might not be drawn away from the fight, and
that the enemy might be inspired with terror and dismay, conceiving
themselves to be surrounded on the rear. Nor is that guilt, which I
now complain of, shared by all the Albans. They merely followed their
leader, as you too would have done, had I wished to turn my army away
to any other point from thence. It is Mettius there who is the leader
of this march: it is Mettius also who the contriver of this war is: it
is Mettius who is the violator of the treaty between Rome and Alba.
Let another hereafter venture to do the like, if I do not presently
make of him a signal example to mankind." The centurions in arms stood
around Mettius: the king proceeded with the rest of his speech as he
had commenced: "It is my intention, and may it prove fortunate, happy,
and auspicious to the Roman people, to myself, and to you, O Albans,
to transplant all the inhabitants of Alba to Rome, to grant your
commons the rights of citizenship, to admit your nobles into the body
of senators, to make one city, one state: as the Alban state after
being one people was formerly divided into two, so let it now again
become one." On hearing this the Alban youth, unarmed, surrounded by
armed men, although divided in their sentiments, yet under pressure of
the general apprehension maintained silence. Then Tullus proceeded:
"If, Mettius Fufetius, you were capable of learning fidelity, and how
to observe treaties, I would have suffered you to live and have given
you such a lesson. But as it is, since your disposition is incurable,
do you at any rate by your punishment teach mankind to consider those
obligations sacred, which have been violated by you? As therefore a
little while since you kept your mind divided between the interests of
Fidenae and of Rome, so shall you now surrender your body to be torn
asunder in different directions." Upon this, two chariots drawn by
four horses being brought up, he bound Mettius stretched at full
length to their carriages: then the horses were driven in different
directions, carrying off his mangled body on each carriage, where the
limbs had remained hanging to the cords. All turned away their eyes
from so shocking a spectacle. That was the first and last instance
among the Romans of a punishment which established a precedent that
showed but little regard for the laws of humanity. In other cases
we may boast that no other nation has approved of milder forms of
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