"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

Etimologjia e fjales.

Diskutim profesional për gjuhën.

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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#166

Post by Mallakastrioti » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:18 pm

Faleminderit Zeus qe e solle tekstin e plote,lidhur me paragrafin e mesiperm nga Odisea.

Me te vertet mbreselenese dhe e jashtzakonshme lidhur shpjegimit qe me shqipen shpjegohen me te vertet dhe rrenjet e fjaleve jane po aq shqip sa edhe sot.
Pyetja qe me lindi vetvetiu duke lexuar librin lidhur etimologjise se fjaleve homerike,prej nga nxorra keto shkeputje,eshte, po keta autore ne cilen gjuhe jane mbeshtetur qe i kane perkthyer?
Ndoshta kete do kerkojme e mundohemi ta analizojme me vone,por le te vazhdojme me diçka tjeter po kaq interesante.

Fjala DIELL dhe I,E- DIELLOSUR (dite e djellosur=e nxehte):

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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#167

Post by alfeko sukaraku » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:19 pm

aty gjendej edhe faltoria e Apollonit Diell, kryeqender pellazge qe ne shek 5 p e s do shendrrohej ne djepi i perhapjes se gjuhes greke te krijuar teknikisht ne athine nga Gorja.
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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#168

Post by Phoenix » Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:46 am

[quoteem]Pa dashur me u larguar nga tema që po ndjek Mallakastrioti, dua të vendos disa fjalë të nxjerra nga një fjalor ethimollogjik. Nga një pamje e parë, m'u krijua përshtypja se i vihet rrotull fjalëve shqip dhe shpesh herë nuk vendoset e barasvlershmja e vërtetë. Psh tek fjala "Tree", mendoj se vetëm mos me lindur dyshime nuk përdoret "Dru", sepse është në sankrit dhe do të pyetej se nga e mori shqipja këtë
Ndërsa për "Freeze" në shqip është një fjalë e rrallë. Banorët e një fshati shqiptar që mban emrin e fjalës, nuk thonë bën freskët, por "bën Proshkët"!
Po "llokma" jonë tek "lacerate" a ka të bëjë gjë me rusishten? :roll: .[/quoteem]

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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#169

Post by Zeus10 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:57 am

alfeko sukaraku wrote:aty gjendej edhe faltoria e Apollonit Diell, kryeqender pellazge qe ne shek 5 p e s do shendrrohej ne djepi i perhapjes se gjuhes greke te krijuar teknikisht ne athine nga Gorja.
Pikerisht, ja ku jane vargjet:

ἔπλεον: ἡγεμόνευε δ᾽ ἄναξ Διὸς υἱὸς Ἀπόλλων:
ἷξον δ᾽ ἐς Κρίσην εὐδείελον, ἀμπελόεσσαν,

Fjala εὐδείελον qe perkthehet ashtu sic thote Mallakastrioti : me diell, e diellosur:

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dhe natyrisht fjala eshte bashkim i nyjes εὐ + δείελον qe perkthehet as me pak dhe as me shume por diellin.
Sic shihet pasazhi eshte shkeputur nga vargjet e Homerit: Hymn per Apollon, apo ndryshe te quajtur Diell( ἠέλιον).
Pra fjala eshte ἠέλι= δείελ qe ne shqip eshte pothuajse identike DIELLI

dhe nese ky mbishkrim eshte autentik:

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3745 ... lemgd0.jpg

na konfirmohet plotesisht se """greket""" e vjeter, ose me sakte pellazget, e kane therritur diellin njesoj si shqiptaret sot dhe ata e adhuronin duke e pasur kryeperendi:

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Εἲς Ἀπόλλωνα Δήλιον

pra A-poll(lind)-oni i Delosit(Diellit) eshte vete dielli, ashtu sic te gjithe ne e dime se bashku me filohelenet:
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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#170

Post by Zeus10 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:15 am

Problemi i vetem eshte, qe filohelenet, qe kane krijuar fjaloret per gjuhen """greke""", ""harrojne""" te vendosin germen 'D',

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qe ben diferencen midis fjales shqipe dhe asaj ""greke". Dhe kete ata e bejne ""pa qellim"", sepse dhe kurrshtari me i thjeshte e ve re qe ne vargjet e Homerit fjala e permban ate germe εὐδείελον(me blu):


ἀλλ᾽ ὅτε δὴ Πελοπόννησον παρενίσατο πᾶσαν
καὶ δὴ ἐπὶ Κρίσης κατεφαίνετο κόλπος ἀπείρων,
ὅστε διὲκ Πελοπόννησον πίειραν ἐέργει:
ἦλθ᾽ ἄνεμος Ζέφυρος μέγας, αἴθριος, ἐκ Διὸς αἴσης,
λάβρος ἐπαιγίζων ἐξ αἰθέρος, ὄφρα τάχιστα
νηῦς ἀνύσειε θέουσα θαλάσσης ἁλμυρὸν ὕδωρ.
ἄψορροι δὴ ἔπειτα πρὸς ἠῶ τ᾽ ἠέλιόν τε
ἔπλεον: ἡγεμόνευε δ᾽ ἄναξ Διὸς υἱὸς Ἀπόλλων:
ἷξον δ᾽ ἐς Κρίσην εὐδείελον, ἀμπελόεσσαν,
ἐς λιμέν᾽: ἣ δ᾽ ἀμάθοισιν ἐχρίμψατο ποντοπόρος νηῦς.
ἔνθ᾽ ἐκ νηὸς ὄρουσε ἄναξ ἑκάεργος Ἀπόλλων,
ἀστέρι εἰδόμενος μέσῳ ἤματι: τοῦ δ᾽ ἀπὸ πολλαὶ
σπινθαρίδες πωτῶντο, σέλας δ᾽ εἰς οὐρανὸν ἷκεν:
.

Nuk ka fjale ne kete paszh qe te mos jete shqip, qe nga fjala e pare ἀλλά qe perkthehet ala(akoma) e deri tek fjala e fundit ἷκεν qe perkthehet gabimisht erdhen, por ne fakt eshte fjala shqipe ikën, e cila ne veten e pare njejes eshte ἵκω, si shqipja iki.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#171

Post by Zeus10 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:16 am

Po marr dhe dy rreshta te tjere te Homerit:

βῆ δὲ παρὰ Κπουνοὺς καὶ Χαλκίδα καὶ παρὰ Δύμην
ἠδὲ παρ᾽ Ἤλιδα δῖαν, ὅθι κρατέουσιν Ἐπειοί.


se cfare greqishte eshte kjo, une nuk e marr vesh. Ajo qe eshte zyrtare eshte qe dhe fjalet perkthehen si ne shqip, por une po i shkruaj pak rreshtat me germa ""latine"" edhe po e le ne deshiren tuaj ta ""perktheni"" ate:

bë dhe para q'punus që kalkida qe para dumën
edhe par elida dian hodhi kratë ushin epejoi


Pra sic shihet fjalet nuk jane greqisht, por dhe sikur ti cilesojme ato te tilla, perseri ato bartin kutime shqip, psh κρατέουσιν qe gjasme eshte zgjedhim i foljes κρατέω(krateo), filohelenet e perkthejne e siperme(e lartme), kurse ajo ne te vertete shpreh kuptimin: me e mbajt lart ne KRAHEt. Kjo eshte shume e kuptueshme, mjafton te mendosh jo ne menyre skolastike.
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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#172

Post by Mallakastrioti » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:54 pm

Ja edhe fjala "Agrios,Agros" qe ne shqip kemi fjalen "i,e -eger"

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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#173

Post by Zeus10 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:57 pm

Mallakastrioti wrote:Ja edhe fjala "Agrios,Agros" qe ne shqip kemi fjalen "i,e -eger"

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Ose i egri, e egra, egersi.
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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#174

Post by alfeko sukaraku » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:04 pm

Mallakastrioti wrote:Ja edhe fjala "Agrios,Agros" qe ne shqip kemi fjalen "i,e -eger"

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fjala ruhet nga te dyja gjuhet, ndersa forma e ketueshme eshte forma e njejt me greqishten e sotme..

forma te tjera jane dhjetra per kete fjale

"agra" eshte forma me tipike.
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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#175

Post by Zeus10 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:04 pm

Per kafshet e egra qe te shqyejne, Homeri ka perdorur shprehjen θήρεσσιν, qe ne njejes ben θήρ(ther). Kjo eshte fjala shqipe therr. Bishat e pyllit te therrin ose te çajne, nese te konsiderojne pre. Ne kete shprehje e perdorim rendom, psh e therri aksh njeri ose bageti.
Ja dhe vargjet:
ῥῖγος καὶ κάματος, γλυκερὸς δέ μοι ὕπνος ἐπέλθῃ,
δείδω, μὴ θήρεσσιν ἕλωρ καὶ κύρμα γένωμαι.”

ka plot fjale te tjera shqip ne to si psh shprehja: κύρμα qe eshte fjala shqip kërma ose preja.
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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#176

Post by alfeko sukaraku » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:11 pm

Zeus10 wrote:Per kafshet e egra qe te shqyejne, Homeri ka perdorur shprehjen θήρεσσιν, qe ne njejes ben θήρ(ther). Kjo eshte fjala shqipe therr. Bishat e pyllit te therrin ose te çajne, nese te konsiderojne pre. Ne kete shprehje e perdorim rendom, psh e therri aksh njeri ose bageti.
Ja dhe vargjet:
ῥῖγος καὶ κάματος, γλυκερὸς δέ μοι ὕπνος ἐπέλθῃ,
δείδω, μὴ θήρεσσιν ἕλωρ καὶ κύρμα γένωμαι.”

ka plot fjale te tjera shqip ne to si psh shprehja: κύρμα qe eshte fjala shqip kërma ose preja.
thirama...perdoret nga greqishtja e sotme

nga "agra" e lashte del "thirama" .."greke"
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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#177

Post by Zeus10 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:34 pm

alfeko sukaraku wrote:
Zeus10 wrote:Per kafshet e egra qe te shqyejne, Homeri ka perdorur shprehjen θήρεσσιν, qe ne njejes ben θήρ(ther). Kjo eshte fjala shqipe therr. Bishat e pyllit te therrin ose te çajne, nese te konsiderojne pre. Ne kete shprehje e perdorim rendom, psh e therri aksh njeri ose bageti.
Ja dhe vargjet:
ῥῖγος καὶ κάματος, γλυκερὸς δέ μοι ὕπνος ἐπέλθῃ,
δείδω, μὴ θήρεσσιν ἕλωρ καὶ κύρμα γένωμαι.”

ka plot fjale te tjera shqip ne to si psh shprehja: κύρμα qe eshte fjala shqip kërma ose preja.
thirama...perdoret nga greqishtja e sotme

nga "agra" e lashte del "thirama" .."greke"
Rrenja e fjales eshte ther(ne """greqishten""" e vjeter), fjale qe perdoret per te treguar nje bishte vrasese(te eger).
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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#178

Post by Arban Blandi » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:43 am

Rumunisht Jepuri Shqip Lepuri
lat. lepus, leporem - shq. lepur, lepra, lepuj
Last edited by Arban Blandi on Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:18 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#179

Post by ALBPelasgian » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:52 am

Mallakastrioti wrote:Ja edhe fjala "Agrios,Agros" qe ne shqip kemi fjalen "i,e -eger"

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Kjo gjetje eshte e shkelqyeshme Mallakaster!
M'duhet qe ne artikullin per njejtesine iliro-thrake ne nenkapitullin per agrianet te nderfus edhe kete shpjegim.

Ec e duroj tash absurditetet qe propaganda bizantine i hudh ne internet:
The ethnonym is clearly of Greek origin (from *agro- "field" (cf. Lat. ager, Gk. agros, Eng. acre * Agrios, -anes). Nowadays they are considered extinct, as the last members of the tribe were assimilated mostly by the Slavic populations which settled in the region
Por qysh ka shpjegue edhe bija e gjuhetarit te madh italian G.Bonfante, Larisa, -anes eshte prapashtese e vertete ilire e cila deshmohet nga nje sere fisesh si: Engelanes, Athamanes, Atintanes, Akarnanes, Arktanes etj.

S'dyti nuk eshte edhe aq e sigurt qe agrianet (si dhe fise te tjera peone) te jene zhdukur. Ato duhet te kene mbijetuar po ne hapesiren shqiptare te Maqedonise perendimore.

Se 'Agrian' duhet te kete nenkuptuar egersine (jo ne kuptimin e primitivizmit) por te egersise, furise luftarake te sulmit e deshmon nder tjerash edhe tradita e tyre ushtarake:
In the times of Philip II, the territory of the Agrianes was administered by Pella. [6]). They were crack javelin throwers and an elite unit of Alexander the Great's light infantry, who fought under the command of General Attalus.
They fought light, carried a bundle of javelins into battle and wore no armor or helmets, perhaps not even shields[7]. Alexander made heavy use of them and every time he dispatched a flying column, the Agrianians were always included. They were expert fighters in mountainous terrains where the phalanx was impracticable and mobile enough to use when speed was essential. Being an elite unit of the light infantry, they often formatted with the hypaspists battalion and the companion cavalry at the right wing of the army.
They are first mentioned regarding the Megabazos' campaign in 511 BC[8]. In 429 BC they were subject to the Odrysian kingdom[9] and later, as early as 352 BC, they became allies of Philip of Macedonia .[10]

At the Battle of Gaugamela their numerical strength was 1000. They fought under king Langarus with the Macedonians against the Triballians in 335 BC[11] and succeeded in protecting the lands of Alexander and were thus rewarded with the right to govern themselves, a move that led to a long-lasting and most reliable alliance. During the time of the Seleucid Empire, a crack unit of Antiochus' Agrianes was brigaded together with Persians at Raphia. Contingents from the Agrianes and the Penestae, numbering 800 and 2,000 men respectively, were a part of the garrison of Cassandreia at the time of the Third Macedonian War[12].
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!

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Re: Etimilogji e fjaleve...

#180

Post by Lynkest » Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:41 pm

a ka mundesi dikush te me sqaroje se prej nga vjen fjala GUR edhe etimologjin pak reth kesaj.

Ju pershendes FLM shum

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