"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

Këtu mund të flisni mbi historinë tonë duke sjellë fakte historike për ndriçimin e asaj pjese të historisë mbi të cilen ka rënë harresa e kohës dhe e njerëzve.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#646

Post by Mallakastrioti »

Numizmatika.

Me poshte po sjell nje shkeputje nga libri
"Numismata graeca; Greek coin-types, classified for immediate identification (1910)"
Author: Anson, Leo

Ku interesant mu duk pershkrimi qe i ben autori nje monedhe epirote, ku thote qe ne njeren faqe ndodhet koka e Zeus dhe ne mos gaboj fjala qe kam futur ne rreth ndoshta ka te bej me DRAK per te pershkruar Zeus.

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Sigurisht qe do kundershtohej si fakt, pasi do thuhej se fjala e siperpermendur ka te bej me menyren si quheshin monedhat ne lashtesi, pra "Drakmes". Por mos valle edhe kjo si fjale, pra DRAK-mes ka te beje me menyren si mund te quhej Zoti Pellazg Zeus?
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#647

Post by Mallakastrioti »

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Ne te njejtin liber , nga eshte shkeputur citimi me siper, shoqerohet nga keto keto imazhe:
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Prej:Archaeologia Graeca : or, The Antiquities of Greece (1775)
Author: Potter, John, 1673 or 4-1747
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#648

Post by Mallakastrioti »

Mallakastrioti wrote:Numizmatika.

Me poshte po sjell nje shkeputje nga libri
"Numismata graeca; Greek coin-types, classified for immediate identification (1910)"
Author: Anson, Leo

Ku interesant mu duk pershkrimi qe i ben autori nje monedhe epirote, ku thote qe ne njeren faqe ndodhet koka e Zeus dhe ne mos gaboj fjala qe kam futur ne rreth ndoshta ka te bej me DRAK per te pershkruar Zeus.

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Sigurisht qe do kundershtohej si fakt, pasi do thuhej se fjala e siperpermendur ka te bej me menyren si quheshin monedhat ne lashtesi, pra "Drakmes". Por mos valle edhe kjo si fjale, pra DRAK-mes ka te beje me menyren si mund te quhej Zoti Pellazg Zeus?
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#649

Post by ALBPelasgian »

Meqe sot gjeta pak me teper kohe te lire, vendosa qe te beja nje video me materialet qe vazhdimisht po i hedhim kete. Nder te tjerash perdora vetem nja tre-kater citate (prej mijera sosh qe jane mbledhe ketu) si dhe nje numer fotosh qe shprehin karakterin e pathyeshem luftarak te Shqiptarit. Video quhet: Epirus: Its original inhabitants'. SHikim te kendshem!

Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#650

Post by Mallakastrioti »

Pune e shkelqyer Alb. Te lumte.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#651

Post by Zeus10 »

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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#652

Post by ALBPelasgian »

Nder te tjerash ne nje faqe te shkelqyer per historine e shqiptareve, teksa autori argumentonte ne menyre te denje iliricitetin e Epirit, nder te tjerash duke iu referuar Herodotit permend nje pasazh prej tij:
"All these different people who inhabit the region betwixt the Thesproti and the river Acheron, appeared as confederates in the war. The Thesproti are contiguous both to the Ampraciotae and Leucadii, who came on this occasion from the remotest limits of Greece".
Kete pasazh te perkthyer ne kete forme e kam hasur vetem ne nje version te librit te Herodotit te botuar me 1831:
http://books.google.com/books?id=xsHZTE ... &q&f=false

Pyetja ime konkrete per te cilen pres pergjigjje prej Zeusit, Trojanit apo Mallakastriotit eshte si vijon:

Origjinali i tekstit ne 'greqisht' eshte ky:
47. [1] οὗτοι μὲν ἅπαντες ἐντὸς οἰκημένοι Θεσπρωτῶν καὶ Ἀχέροντος ποταμοῦ ἐστρατεύοντο· Θεσπρωτοὶ γὰρ εἰσὶ ὁμουρέοντες Ἀμπρακιώτῃσι καὶ Λευκαδίοισι, οἳ ἐξ ἐσχατέων χωρέων ἐστρατεύοντο. τῶν δὲ ἐκτὸς τούτων οἰκημένων Κροτωνιῆται μοῦνοι ἦσαν οἳ ἐβοήθησαν τῇ Ἑλλάδι κινδυνευούσῃ μιῇ νηί, τῆς ἦρχε ἀνὴρ τρὶς πυθιονίκης Φάυλλος· Κροτωνιῆται δὲ γένος εἰσὶ Ἀχαιοί.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hh/hh8040.htm
Nderkaq perkthimi qe cuditerisht ze vend gjithkah neper versionet zyrtare te Herodotit eshte ky:
47. These all who have been named dwelt inside the land of the Thesprotians and the river Acheron; for the Thesprotians border upon the land of the Amprakiots and Leucadians, and these were they who came from the greatest distance to serve: but of those who dwell outside these limits the men of Croton were the only people who came to the assistance of Hellas in her danger; and these sent one ship, of whom the commander was Phaÿlos, a man who had three times won victories at the Pythian games. Now the men of Croton are by descent Achaians.
Ne versionin e perkthyer te Herodotit me 1831 thuhet se Ambrakiotet dhe Leukadet vinin prej trevave me te largeta te Hellades, kurse ne perkthimin modern nje shprehje e atille s'figuron. Me intereson te di cili prej perkthimeve eshte korrekt. A permendet ne origjinal qe Ambrakia dhe Leukada ishin trevat me te largeta te Hellades? Cili perkthim eshte i sakte dhe cili i gabuar?

P.S: Varesisht konfirimit te vertetesise se njerit per perkthimeve varet edhe sigurimi i nje prove me shume per iliricitetin e Epirit, kesaj rradhe duke ua kunder-perdorur Herodotin, filoheleneve te cilet shpeshehere e keqperdorin per te provuar 'helenicitetin' e Epirit...
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#653

Post by Trojan »

I dyti eshte perkthim me i mire...

Te gjithe ata qe banojne ne territorin e Thesproteve dhe Akeronit u angazhuan per lufte!!
Thesprotet ndodhen (jane ne mes) nepermjet Ambrakjoteve dhe Lefkadhjoteve,pjeset me te largeta(skajore) qe angazhohen ne lufte.......!!!!!!



Une keshtu e Perkthej ...
Mbase mund te ket nje perkthim me te sakte nga te tjeret!!!
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#654

Post by Zeus10 »

Per fjalet kyce ne ate fjali, jepen keto perkthime:

ὁμουρέοντες --qe ndodhen ne kufijte e siperm
ἔσχατος-----ne ekstrem, jashte fare
χωρέων ----toka, hora, territori, vendi
ἐστρατεύοντο---te sherbesh ne ushtri(folje--e-strate----)

Edhe sikur Herodoti ta kete fjalen per kufijte brenda Hellasit, duhet pasur parasysh qe Hellasi i atehershem nuk ishte nje formacion politiko-etnik, me kufij gjeografike te qarte, qe te beje ndarje te paster etnike me racat e tjera, sic jane kombet-shtete sot. Per me teper, librat e ketij Herodotit, duket sikur jane shkruar ne shekullin e 20-e. Ato dhe sikur te jene autentike, e paraqesin Herodotin, nje shkrimtar oborri jashtezakonisht jorealist, qe shpeshhere kontradikton thelbesisht deklarimet e tij.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#655

Post by ALBPelasgian »

"The language of the Epirotes is repeatedly described in antiquity as non-Greek (Thucydides 1.47, 1.51, 2.80, Strabo, 8.1.3). Yes the Epirotes were connected with the origin of various Greek communities. There may well have been an ethnic and linguistic mixture in Epirus, some tribes speaking Greek, others Illyrian or some other language (cf. Hammond (1967) 423; Katičić (1976) 120-7).

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Medieval and modern Greek By Robert Browning, 1983, p. 2
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Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#656

Post by ALBPelasgian »

Pershendetje,

Do t'ju lusja ta kem vemendjen tuaj per problemin e meposhtem:

Dy here me ka ndodhe qe te lexoj komentime rreth Justinit i cili e ka quajtur ne nje vend Pirron si 'barbar'. Se pari kete e kam lexuar te Dhimiter Pilika 'Pellazget - Origjina jone e mohuar' mirepo per fat te keq nuk e permendtte referencen e sakte. Se dyti kete po e has rishtas ne nje faqe e cila ne menyre dinjitoze mbron te verteten iliro-shqiptare te Epirit:
As of the start of new era, the tradition of considering Epirus/south Illyria as “barbarian”/non-Greek continued, even with the presence of Greek colonies, and use of written Greek language for literary purposes. Roman historian Justin, who had good knowledge of the history of Macedonia, Illyria and Epirus, continued to call “barbarian” the educated king Phyrrhus.11

11 Justin, XVI, 3
Dhimiter Pilika ne librin e tij t'mrekullueshem e citon si vijon Justinin:
"Por ja, midis Lisimakut dhe mbretit Pirro, te cilet pak me pare vepruan si aleate kunder Dhemetrit, filluan grindjet, nje e keqe e zakonshme midis dy barbareve, dhe plasi lufta".
Ja ne nje faqe online eshte teksti origjinal i Justinit, mirepo per fat te keq nuk munda ta verifikoja:
http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/ ... xte16.html

A eshte kjo apo s'eshte:
Sed inter Lysimachum et Pyrrum regem, socios paulo ante aduersus Demetrium, adsiduum inter pares discordiae malum bellum mouerat
apo eshte perkthim i gabuar nga Dhimiter Pilika?

Mund ta gjejme dot kete identifikim te Pirros si barbar?
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#657

Post by Zeus10 »

Albpelasgian, ajo fjali egziston,por mendoj se ka vend per interpretim ne perkthim. Do ta gjej une kur te kem kohe, sepse mendoj se e kam kete pasazh, ne database-in tim. Por meqe jemi tek gjuha latine, une dua te ndalem pak tek perkthimi i saj. Per kete shkeputa nje fjali nga prurja jote:
His comitem se et belli socium iungit Pyrrus, rex Epiri, sperans non difficilius Demetrium amittere Macedoniam posse quam adquisierat.
Shikoje pak me vemendje pjesen e nenvizuar, sepse ajo eshte shume interesante. Ajo perkthehet : he joins/joined the partner(or companion), dhe kjo eshte menyra skolastike e te perkthyerit, por ne fakt ajo eshte nje shqipe e paster, sepse iungit(qe gramatikisht eshte veta e trete njejes e iungō) eshte ne fakt: '(ai) ju ngjit'.
Pra:
ju ngjit shokut
me prapashtesen e famshme latine um.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#658

Post by Zeus10 »

Mendoj se fjalia eshte kjo:
Sed inter Lysimachum et Pyrrum regem, socios paulo ante aduersus Demetrium, adsiduum inter pares discordiae malum bellum mouerat.
Nuk mendoj se eshte :midis dy barbareve
inter pares
por midis dy te barabarteve.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#659

Post by land »

inter pares=> midis te barabartesh...Zeus 10 ka te drejte...pra nuk ka te beje me barbar.
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Re: EPIRI - PERKATESIA E TIJ SHQIPTARE

#660

Post by land »

Per temen kisha kete...
Historiani i Thucidydes, athinas i shekullit te V para krishtit i pershkruan epirotet si barbare, po ashtu dhe Strabo.
"They are Nietzsche's over-men, these primitive Albanians — something between kings and tigers."
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