elikranon wrote:Eshte budallallek te thuhet se ata luftonin,por s`dinin per cfare luftonin!AgrianShigjetari wrote:
Eshte budallek i pacipe te thuhet se Suliotet luftuan per pavaresine e Greqise ne nje kohe kur koncepti i Greqise ishte teresisht i paperfytyrueshem.
Megjithate revolucioni grek kishte nje platforme dhe nuk u kujtuan rruges per emrin Greqi. Dhe per ate Greqi u be kryengritja greke.Zeus10 wrote:elikranon wrote:Eshte budallallek te thuhet se ata luftonin,por s`dinin per cfare luftonin!AgrianShigjetari wrote:
Eshte budallek i pacipe te thuhet se Suliotet luftuan per pavaresine e Greqise ne nje kohe kur koncepti i Greqise ishte teresisht i paperfytyrueshem.
Ata luftonin, per ate qe luftonin shumica e mesjetareve, religjionin. Pervec kesaj, ata ishin si shqiponja, qe ishin mesuar te jetonin ne male dhe liri, duke mos pelqyer serine e taksave te sunduesve lokale dhe perandorake.
Platforme e kujt? Une te siguroj, qe jo e "grekeve" dhe e atyre qe ju tha qe ishin greke. Ajo nisi si nje platforme koloniale e Rusise dhe shteteve te tjera perendimore, qe ishin te interesuar ti benin nje barriere politike-territoriale Turqise me krijimin e shtetit grek. Nga pikepamja etnike, te gjithe elementet ""greke"", nuk permbushnin kriteret per tu ngritur ne rangun e nje kombi, por emri Greqi u be realitet, perpara se fitoret ne terren ta siguronin kete. ""Greket"" dhe ata qe luftonin per krijimin e Greqise ne terren, u thyen ushtarakisht nga Turqia, por per Fuqite e Medha projekti i krijimit te Greqiise nga hici ishte ireversibel dhe ata e bene ate realitet, nje realitet ky qe bashkoi larmi elementesh pa lidhje te qenesishme me njeri-tjetrin, ne nje te vetem, me qellim arritjen e synimeve politike:elikranon wrote:Megjithate revolucioni grek kishte nje platforme dhe nuk u kujtuan rruges per emrin Greqi. Dhe per ate Greqi u be kryengritja greke.
Ngaqe kishte nje platforme te qarte dhe pergatitje te mire ishte e vetmja levizje e asaj kohe ne Evrope qe rezultoj me sukses (levizjet e asaj kohe ne Itali dhe Spanje deshtuan)
Une histori ne Shqiperi mesova. Nuk e di nese eshte revizionuar aq shume historia. Historia qe kam mesuar une ne Shqiperi eshte qe me 1815 Fuqite e Medha te kohes: Rusia, Anglia, Austro-Hungaria (sidomos kjo, Meternih ishte gjer ne fund nga armiqte me te medhenj te rev.grek) krijuan Lidhjen e Shenjte dhe nder synimet e saj ishte parandalimi i cdo levizjeje separatiste dhe shuarja e saj qe ne gjeneze.Zeus10 wrote: Platforme e kujt? Une te siguroj, qe jo e "grekeve" dhe e atyre qe ju tha qe ishin greke. Ajo nisi si nje platforme koloniale e Rusise dhe shteteve te tjera perendimore, qe ishin te interesuar ti benin nje barriere politike-territoriale Turqise me krijimin e shtetit grek. Nga pikepamja etnike, te gjithe elementet ""greke"", nuk permbushnin kriteret per tu ngritur ne rangun e nje kombi, por emri Greqi u be realitet, perpara se fitoret ne terren ta siguronin kete. ""Greket"" dhe ata qe luftonin per krijimin e Greqise ne terren, u thyen ushtarakisht nga Turqia, por per Fuqite e Medha projekti i krijimit te Greqiise nga hici ishte ireversibel dhe ata e bene ate realitet, nje realitet ky qe bashkoi larmi elementesh pa lidhje te qenesishme me njeri-tjetrin, ne nje te vetem, me qellim arritjen e synimeve politike:
Kjo eshte amalgama qe ti e quan "race greke" dhe vendos paralele me etnine shqiptare duke bere krahasime te pakuptimta.
Greqia u be realitet, vetem sepse ky ishte vullneti i Fuqive te Medha te krishtera:elikranon wrote:Une histori ne Shqiperi mesova. Nuk e di nese eshte revizionuar aq shume historia. Historia qe kam mesuar une ne Shqiperi eshte qe me 1815 Fuqite e Medha te kohes: Rusia, Anglia, Austro-Hungaria (sidomos kjo, Meternih ishte gjer ne fund nga armiqte me te medhenj te rev.grek) krijuan Lidhjen e Shenjte dhe nder synimet e saj ishte parandalimi i cdo levizjeje separatiste dhe shuarja e saj qe ne gjeneze.
Kryengritja greke u pergatit nga Filiki Eteria pikerisht ne kete kohe qe nuk e favorizonin rrethanat nderkombetare dhe ne fillim Fuqite e Medha nuk e morren seriozisht. Kur e pane qe nuk ishte flake kashte, atehere filloj antagonizmi nga Fuqite e Medha per ta kontrolluar. Po te lexosh materialet e Filiki Eterise, po te lexosh kujtimet e njerit nga themeluesit e saj, po te lexosh traktin - thirrje te Ipsilantit me shperthimin e revolucionit e kupton se u drejtohen Grekeve. Iluministet grek kishin kaluar nga stadi i nje kryengritjeje panballkanike te te krishtereve te formuluar nga Rigas Feraios, te platforma e kryengritjes greke. Trungu i popullsise ne territoret helladike ishin grek.
Kaq e lehte!Zeus10 wrote: "Greket"" per ti nisur si race, ju desh ti vishnin me teshat e shqiptareve dhe tju fusnin ne goje, Gjuhen e Kishes, se perndryshe nuk do ishte e qarte domethenia e termit "grek".
Po, kjo eshte e vertete, por ata nuk ju falen ""grekeve" lirine, por identitetin, sepse lirine ata e fituan me gjakun e shqiptareve.elikranon wrote:Kaq e lehte!Zeus10 wrote: "Greket"" per ti nisur si race, ju desh ti vishnin me teshat e shqiptareve dhe tju fusnin ne goje, Gjuhen e Kishes, se perndryshe nuk do ishte e qarte domethenia e termit "grek".
Me fal ne kete pike, por une une isha mesuar me thenie pompoze shqiptare si p.sh: "lirine nuk ta fal kush", "liria fitohet me gjak" etj.
"West of Thessalia was Epirus, now part of Albania..."
Geographia classica: or, The application of ancient geography to ... - Page 66
Samuel Butler - 1821
Epirus and its descendant Albania have been repeatedly subdued, but their submission has always been merely nominal.
The Open Court, Volume 27, 1913, p.67
"The whole of Epirus is included in the modern Albania".
Bibliotheca classica: or, a dictionary of all the principal names ... - Page 102No cover image John Lemprière, Lorenzo L. Da Ponte, John David Ogilby - 1838
Nderkaq ka mundesi qe citatin e meposhtem ta kem postuar edhe me pare ose dicka te ngjashme me te. Sidoqofte ja:Many of the inhabitants of New Epiros were Albanians who, by the thirteenth century, were beginning to form identifiable tribal units or clans.
The despotate of epiros 1267-1479, Donald MacGillivray Nicol, 1984
Edhe dallimi midis Vlleheve te Epirit dhe shqiptareve eshte veshtire i kapshem:Manners of the Albanians. — It has been the policy of the Turkish government to introduce Albanians from Epirus into the southern parts of Greece, ever since a serious alarm of the revival of antient independence was excited by the co-operation of Russia. The Albanians of Epirus are in many respects different from the great body of the Greeks: but those of the central part, such as Bceotia and Phocis, are the descendants of old settlers; they speak modem Greek, like the inhabitants of the towns, and bear a much more civilized character than the immediate subjects of Ali Pacha. Dr. C. gives an account (p. 80.) of an * interesting conversation' with them, and of their hospitable reception of him. He perceived, he says, ' that these poor peasants are not so entirely ignorant of the antient renown of their country, or of its present resources, as might be supposed. They said, that the land they cultivated'had,, once been tilled by a race of famous warriors ; and that it would be found now, as formerly, full of heroes, if a leader were tci present himself'.'
' Neocorio, near the ruin* of Thespia, Dec. 8th.—We passed thenight, as we had done at Platana, in the midst of Albanians,. stretched around a hearth upon the same floor with us; their cattle occupying one half of the room, and the family the other. The same simplicity appeared in all things relating to their manner of life, — the same disinterested hospitality and cleanliness : for although the best Albanian cottage has no hole in the roof whereby the smoke from the hearth may escape, yet the walls and the floor, being covered with clay or plaister constantly swept, are so. perfectly clean, that neither vermin nor dirt of any kind can be harboured; nor is there in these dwellings the same liability• to contagion which exists in the divans and couches of more lordly mansions. For the rest, the condition of the Albanian peasantry, who cultivate the plains of Greece, is so much the same, and their way of living so uniform,.that the description of a single family may apply to the whole community. The great plains of Boeotia and Tliessaly may be said to surpass every other in the world in beauty and fertility. To us the plain of Boeotia appeared as a vast natural garden. Yet the labouring peasants, who are all of them Albanians, —for the idea of industry in Greece has no other association than that of an Albanian peasant, — complain everywhere of oppression: and indeed the labours of the plough can hardly be considered as a peaceful occupation, in a land where the husbandmen appear in the fields armed as for battle. Such, however, seems to have been the condition of the country ever since the days of Homer: and when the traveller enters one of the houses; every thing he sees calls to mind the simplicity of manners which characterized the inhabitants of Hellas in the first ages of its history. The bread is always made into cakes, which are baked upon ' ''. * E e * the the hearth beneath the embers and ashes: while this is preparing by the women, the men are engaged in peeling and splitting the onions to be served with it. The master of the house, after receiving his guests, takes the post of honour, by seating himself against the sacks of corn, which often occupy a considerable portion of the floor of his cottage: there he remains, issuing- his orders to his family until the meal is over; when he encourages his guests to take their rest, by first setting the example, and consigning himself to sleep, without moving from the spot where he finished his repast.
The Monthly review By Ralph Griffiths, George Edward Griffiths
http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA423& ... utput=text
Among the inhabitants of Epirus, the Wlaki, or Wallachians, are distinguished from the other Albanians by their natural strength, their activity, their temperate habits, and their peaceable disposition. They live nearly after the manner of the better sort of gipsies : during summer, they occupy, with their flocks, the mountains of Pindus, and, in the winter, reside on the plains of Thessaly, in tents. When this Nomadic race commence their wanderings, they collect themselves, like birds of passage, in immense numbers. A troop frequently extends half a mile in length, and has in it a thousand horses, which transport their tents, their property, and the smallest children ; while the men, the females, and the elder children proceed on foot, two Greek priests closing this long train. The Albanians are a wilder race : they are attached only to war, antJ, during times of peace, subsist in a predatory manner. The late Ali Pascha deserves to be praised for having put a stop to their violences, and thereby rendered the high roads secure.
A similar change has taken place in the southern extremity of the Morea; where, not long since, the Mainotes committed as many robberies by sea as the Albanians did by land. Hardly a vessel ventured to approach their coasts: the caves in the rocks that surround their shores, served as hiding-places and stations, where the sentinels, who were mostly ecclesiastics, stood constantly on the look-out, and made a signal as soon as they espied any ship ; for which service, a tithe of the booty was assigned to the church. Both Turks and Christians, whenever they feH into their hands, were sold as slaves, the former to Christians, and the latter to Turks. But, at length, the extension of trade and commerce has put an endtheir habits of barbarianism. Not long ago, the Mainotes had such a bad character, that no traveller would yenure to approach them ; yet, since they
have been visited, it seems that they have been much misrepresented. Their inveterate hatred towards the Turks was indeed a reason why no Mahommedan, or any one who might be taken for a spy, could approach their retreats with impunity ; but unsuspected travellers, who have since visited this part of Greece, have been entertained by I he Mainotes with an hospitality equalling that of the Arabians. Every chief has welcomed the traveller in a friendly manner, has set before him whatever his house afforded, and afterwards accompanied him on his journey, until he was out of danger, proceeding with him as far as the residence of the next chief. Each of these chiefs occupies a square strongly fortified tower: at home, he is the judge of his vassals, and their leader in the field. The condition and habits of this people bear a great resemblance to the clans of the Highlands. Every Mainote clan, and every Highland laird, is independent of the rest, and attacks his neighbour whenever he conceives himself injured by him. The most powerful among these chiefs has the title of Bey, negociates with the Turks, and settles the tribute wliich they agree to pay the latter. The Mainote is constantly armed with his gun: even the females are expert in the use of arms, and accompany their husbands to battle ; for which reason they enjoy their respect and confidence, and participate with them in the education of their children, and in their agricultural and domestic employments. In every village is an open place, where the youtli of both sexes practise firing at a mark, and in gymnastic exercises, which are succeeded by dancing. Thus the visitor conceives himself transported at once to ancient Sparta; and thus, too, we perceive how little the Greeks have altered or degenerated, when left to themselves.
THE LITERARY CHRONICLE FOR THE YEAR 1824
http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA809& ... utput=text
E pashe tere materialin qe solle.AgrianShigjetari wrote:Duke kerkuar neper internet ne nje forum grek gjeta pos tjerash nje liber te "perpunuar" sipas gustos se tyre..... Sidoqofte, libri permban gabime trashanike per shkak se 'Epirotet Muslimane' i llogarit si grek kurse ne anen tjeter thote se ata ishin shumica shqiptare.
O elikranon nuk arrin ta kuptosh kete gje elementare qe ndarje ne dy fe myslymane dhe ortodokse si ne Epir apo Thesali kane qene vllehet dhe shqiptaret? Keto jane rracat qe kane banuar dhe banojne ende sot aty....nuk ka grek se greket ngarkuan mushkat me kohe e harruan ti mbathnin me patkonj ore.elikranon wrote:E pashe tere materialin qe solle.AgrianShigjetari wrote:Duke kerkuar neper internet ne nje forum grek gjeta pos tjerash nje liber te "perpunuar" sipas gustos se tyre..... Sidoqofte, libri permban gabime trashanike per shkak se 'Epirotet Muslimane' i llogarit si grek kurse ne anen tjeter thote se ata ishin shumica shqiptare.
Autori llogarit si grek vetem "epirotet myslymane" te Janines, Artes, me nje fjale ne jug te Janines. Ketu nuk ka ndonje paradoks. E kam konstatuar ne disa libra ku thuhet se Myslymanet e Janines ishin kryesisht grekofon. Bile permendet qe me 1923 u shkembyen edhe myslymanet grekofon te Janines dhe Kretes, permenden ne menyre te vecante keto komunitete.
