"Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. Our elders were Epirotes, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies. I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto ▬ Skanderbeg, October 31 1460

KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

Flisni për historinë e këtyre dy rajoneve shumë të rëndësishëm, popujve dhe racave që e kanë banuar dhe e banojnë.
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#16

Post by ALBPelasgian »

Shtjellimi i kronikes se Apianit, shfaq disi nje fytyre ilirike te asaj qe ne jemi mesuar tradicionalisht ta quajme Thrakase:
[§6] These peoples, and also the Pannonians, the Rhaetians, the Noricans, the Mysians of Europe, and the other neighboring tribes who inhabited the right bank of the Danube, the Romans distinguished from one another just as the various Greek peoples are distinguished from each other, and they call each by its own name, but they consider the whole of Illyria as embraced under a common designation.
Whence this idea took its start I have not been able to find out, but it continues to this day, for they farm the tax of all the nations from the source of the Danube to the Euxine Sea under one head, and call it the Illyrian tax.

Appian's History of Rome: The Illyrian Wars §§6-10
[§14] The Paeones are a great nation on the Danube, extending from the Iapydes to the Dardani. They are called Paeones by the Greeks, but Pannonians by the Romans. They are counted by the Romans as a part of Illyria, as I have previously said, for which reason it seems proper that I should include them in my Illyrian history. They have been renowned from the Macedonian period through the Agrianes, who rendered very important aid to Philip and Alexander and are Paeones of Lower Pannonia bordering on Illyria.
There I shall tell more about the Mysians. For the present, since the Romans consider the Mysians a part of Illyria and this is my Illyrian history, in order that it may be complete it seems proper to premise that Lucullus invaded Mysia as a general of the republic and that Tiberius took it in the time of the empire.

CHAPTER V

Second War against the Dalmatians -- The City of Promona taken -- Sunodium burned -- The Dalmatians subdued
P.S: Zeus10 do te doja nje ndihme nga ju, meqense jeni njohes i greqishtes se vjeter. Mua me intereson te di nese perkthimet online ne gjuhen angleze te teksteve te Apianit jane te manipuluara si mos me keq. Ne do ta kuptonim nese jane te manipuluara sikur ju t'i gjenit tekstet gjegjese ne greqishten e vjeter.

Ne librin kapital qe kam Iliret dhe Iliria tek autoret antike per profesionalizmin e perkthyese nuk kam aspak dyshim. Tek artikulli per bijte e Ilirit thuhet:
Thone se Autari pati per bir Panonin ose Paionin, dhe ky i fundit pati per bij Skordiskun dhe Tribalin, nga te cilet muaren emrin dhe fiset
Nderkaq, ky pasazh ne gjuhen angleze nuk e njeh fare Paionin:
Autarieus had a son Pannonius, or Pon, and the latter had sons, Scordiscus and Triballus, from whom nations bearing similar names were derived.

http://www.chlt.org/sandbox/perseus/app ... .143.a.php
Ne librin Iliret dhe Iliria... thuhet ne pasazhet pasrendese se:
Agrianet qe jane nje fis i paioneve te poshtem dhe ilire te ardhur, fituan lavdi te madhe per veprat heroike qe bene ne kohen e Filipit dhe Aleksandrit
Nderkaq, ne tekstet ne anglisht jepet ky perkthim:
The Pones are a great nation on the Danube, extending from the Iapydes to the Dardani. They are called Pones by the Greeks, but Pannonians by the Romans. They are counted by the Romans as a part of Illyria, as I have previously said, for which reason it seems proper that I should include them in my Illyrian history. They have been renowned from the Macedonian period through the Agrianes, who rendered very important aid to Philip and Alexander and are Pones of Lower Pannonia bordering on Illyria.
S'permenden askund agrianet ilire...

Zeus10 gjithcka do te saktesohej nese do t'i verifikoje tekstet ne origjinal, ne greqishten e vjeter!?
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Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#17

Post by alfeko sukaraku »

Agrianet permenden shpesh nga Arianos-Aleksandru anavasis.

Permenden si te dobet edhe te trembur nga aleksandri i madhe....
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#18

Post by ALBPelasgian »

alfeko sukaraku wrote:Agrianet permenden shpesh nga Arianos-Aleksandru anavasis.
Permenden si te dobet edhe te trembur nga aleksandri i madhe....
Alfeko ate e di, mirepo dua ta verifikoj nese jane Ilire ose jo ne paragrafin e Apianit?!
Ne sot po hedhim faren me emrin Bashkim,
Qe neser te korrim frutin me emrin Bashkim!
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#19

Post by Zeus10 »

P.S: Zeus10 do te doja nje ndihme nga ju, meqense jeni njohes i greqishtes se vjeter. Mua me intereson te di nese perkthimet online ne gjuhen angleze te teksteve te Apianit jane te manipuluara si mos me keq. Ne do ta kuptonim nese jane te manipuluara sikur ju t'i gjenit tekstet gjegjese ne greqishten e vjeter.
Ne librin kapital qe kam Iliret dhe Iliria tek autoret antike per profesionalizmin e perkthyese nuk kam aspak dyshim. Tek artikulli per bijte e Ilirit thuhet:
Nuk pretendoj te jem njohes i mire i greqishtes se vjeter. Mund te perkthej jo me shume veshtiresi, kam studjuar gramatiken e saj me imtesi, dhe zoteroj nje fjalor te konsiderueshem, por nuk mund te arrij cilesine e perkthimit te teksteve te deritanishem dhe sidomos e kam te pamundur ta flase ate, sepse nuk dihet pronuncimi i vertete i fjaleve ""greke"" dhe ajo nuk eshte gjuha e folur, por nje standart i shkruar i saj, qe ndryshon jo pak nga e folura.
Nje gje e them me bindje: Prapa greqishtes se vjeter, qe eshte nje forme e shkruar e ngurte e ngrire ne kohe gjuhe standarte, qendron nje gjuhe e folur qe eshte paraardhesja e shqipes se folur(jo te shkruar).

Persa i perket manipulimit te teksteve, une mendoj qe jo vetem jane manipuluar, por dhe shkruar e krijuar ne menyre te atille qe ti atribohet nje historie te stisur, qe te fshihet ajo e verteta. Prej kesaj fshehje kane interes te gjitha shtetet dhe kombet moderne te Europes pervec shqiptareve, qe ndoshta jane i vetmi komb origjinal ne Europe.
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#20

Post by alfeko sukaraku »

ALBPelasgian wrote:
alfeko sukaraku wrote:Agrianet permenden shpesh nga Arianos-Aleksandru anavasis.
Permenden si te dobet edhe te trembur nga aleksandri i madhe....
Alfeko ate e di, mirepo dua ta verifikoj nese jane Ilire ose jo ne paragrafin e Apianit?!

Arianos i quan fise barbare.
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#21

Post by AgrianShigjetari »

The Illyrians are probably of the same stem with the Thracians; at least, the elder writers, who had visited the country or conversed with natives of it, counfound them together. (…) Of all the European nations, the Illyrians and Thracians only had the practice of tattooing their bodies. The Thracians are classed together with the Illyrians by the Greek and Roman historians as peoples who tattooed their bodies and offered human sacrifices
(~Early Byzantin churches in Macedonia and southern Serbia~ By Ralph F. Hoddinott, 1963, pg.50)
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#22

Post by ALBPelasgian »

The northern sector of the Balkans was occupied by the Illyrians, a group not well known, but what is known is that they were not Celtic; according to Arutiunov they were ancestors to Albanians. The Illyrians lived in Illyria, a country on the eastern shore of the Adriatic Sea. This region comprises the modern states of Dalmatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Montenegro, with the southern half of Croatia-Slavonia, part of western Serbia, Novibazar, and the extreme north of Albania. Because the inhabitants of Illyria never attained political unity, the landward boundaries were never clearly defined. They spoke some form of Indo-European but it has not been definitely classified. The Thracian language is related to Illyrian, but linguists cannot read or understand Thracian thus they don't know how it is related. To my question: "when does a language become extinct", Arutiunov answers "when a mother no longer speaks it to her child".

http://www.drummingnet.com/alekseev/Cha ... Part2.html
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#23

Post by ALBPelasgian »

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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#24

Post by ALBPelasgian »

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Thrace

Quote:
The name "Illyrian" (see Illyria) was applied to all the tribes of this stock who dwelt west of the northern extensions of the Pindus range and in what was termed Upper Macedonia in later times, and who extended right up to the head of the Adriatic. In Homer the name Macedonia is not yet known, and the term Thracian is applied to all the tribes dwelling from Pieria to the Euxine. There is no well-defined difference between aboriginal Thracians and Illyrians. Thus there was an Illyrian tribe Brygi, a Thracian one Bryges; some of the latter had passed into Asia and settled in the land called from them Phrygia, whence some of them later passed into Armenia; some of the Mysians (regarded by Strabo as Thracians) had also crossed into what was later known as Mysia: closely connected with the Mysians were the Dardanii, of Trojan fame, who had a city Dardania or Dardanus. In Strabo's time a tribe called Dardanii, then reckoned Illyrian, living next the Thracian Bessi (in whose land was the oldest oracle of Dionysus), were probably as much Thracian as Illyrian. All the Thracian and Illyrian tribes tattooed, thus being distinguished from the Celtic tribes who had conquered many of them. The Thracians differed only dialectically from the Illyrians (Strabo), their tongue being closely allied to Greek.
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#25

Post by ALBPelasgian »

Zeus10 & Alfeko,

Dua te di se cila trajte e emrit te Paionise dhe Paioneve eshte me e drejte ne shqipe?
Παίονές, Παιόνων, Παιονία a duhet te shqiptohen ne shqipen standarte si Paioni (treva), paionë (banorët) apo Peoni (treva) dhe peonë (banorët)?
Me duhet pergjigjja juaj sa me pare per shkak se nje artikull do e publikoj se shpejti ne shtyp!
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#26

Post by Zeus10 »

Παίονές--> kjo eshte numri shumes dhe perkthehet: 'pajonët'(ose peonet, sepse αί eshte nje diftong qe lexohet "e" ne disa raste). Per kete ka rendesi dhe nyja shquese

psh:
Appian, Illyrian Wars 3.14
Οἱ δὲ Παίονές εἰσιν ἔθνος μέγα παρὰ τὸν Ἴστρον, ἐπίμηκες ἐξ Ἰαπόδων ἐπὶ Δαρδάνους, Παίονες μὲν ὑπὸ τῶν Ἑλλήνων λεγόμενοι, καὶ ῥωμαϊστὶ Παννόνιοι, συναριθμούμενοι δὲ ὑπὸ Ῥωμαίων τῇ Ἰλλυρίδι, ὡς προεῖπον. διὸ καὶ περὶ τῶνδέ μοι δοκεῖ νῦν κατὰ τὰ Ἰλλυρικὰ εἰπεῖν. ἔνδοξοι δ᾽ εἰσὶν ἐκ Μακεδόνων δι᾽ Ἀγριᾶνας, οἳ τὰ μέγιστα Φιλίππῳ καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρῳ κατεργασάμενοι Παίονές εἰσι τῶν κάτω Παιόνων, Ἰλλυριοῖς ἔποικοι. ἐπεὶ δ᾽ ἐπὶ τοὺς Παίονας ἐστράτευσε Κορνήλιος, κακῶς ἀπαλλάξας μέγα δέος Παιόνων Ἰταλοῖς ἅπασιν ἐνεποίησε, καὶ ἐς πολὺ τοῖς ἔπειτα ὑπάτοις ὄκνον ἐπὶ Παίονας ἐλαύνειν. τὰ μὲν δὴ πάλαι τοσαῦτα περὶ Ἰλλυριῶν καὶ Παιόνων ἔσχον εὑρεῖν: ἐν δὲ τοῖς ὑπομνήμασι τοῦ δευτέρου Καίσαρος τοῦ κληθέντος Σεβαστοῦ, παλαιότερον μὲν οὐδὲν οὐδ᾽ ἐν τοῖσδε περὶ Παιόνων ηὗρον..The Pæones are a great nation on the Danube, extending from the Iapydes to the Dardani. They are called Pæones by the Greeks, but Pannonians by the Romans. They are counted by the Romans as a part of Illyria, as I have previously said, for which reason it seems proper that I should include them in my Illyrian history. They have been renowned from the Macedonian period through the Agrianes, who rendered very important aid to Philip and Alexander and are Pæones of Lower Pannonia bordering on Illyria. When the expedition of Cornelius against the Pannonians resulted disastrously, so great a fear of those people came over all the Italians that for a long time afterwards none of the consuls ventured to march against them. Concerning the early history of the Illyrians and Pannonians, I have not been able to discover anything further, nor have I found in the commentaries of Augustus anything earlier in the chapters treating of the Pannonians.

Παιόνων--> kjo eshte forma e emrit mashkullor ne kallezore(zakonisht me nyjen shquese ton perpara/pas) quhet Attic Declension

Παιονία---> eshte forma e emrit femeror te vendit 'Pajonia', njesoj si Albania.
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#27

Post by alfeko sukaraku »

ALBPelasgian wrote:
alfeko sukaraku wrote:Agrianet permenden shpesh nga Arianos-Aleksandru anavasis.
Permenden si te dobet edhe te trembur nga aleksandri i madhe....
Alfeko ate e di, mirepo dua ta verifikoj nese jane Ilire ose jo ne paragrafin e Apianit?!
pa as nje diskutim qe po.
Agrianet benin pjese ne fiset ilire ashtu si e gjithe ana e ketejshme rrjedhes se lumit ishtru-i shtruar-(danubi).

Hesychi e shpjegon fjalen "agra" si fjalen "egra" ..edhe nga kjo fjale buron emri "agrianet" = te egrit.
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#28

Post by Zeus10 »

alfeko sukaraku wrote:
ALBPelasgian wrote:
alfeko sukaraku wrote:Agrianet permenden shpesh nga Arianos-Aleksandru anavasis.
Permenden si te dobet edhe te trembur nga aleksandri i madhe....
Alfeko ate e di, mirepo dua ta verifikoj nese jane Ilire ose jo ne paragrafin e Apianit?!
pa as nje diskutim qe po.
Agrianet benin pjese ne fiset ilire ashtu si e gjithe ana e ketejshme rrjedhes se lumit ishtru-i shtruar-(danubi).

Hesychi e shpjegon fjalen "agra" si fjalen "egra" ..edhe nga kjo fjale buron emri "agrianet" = te egrit.
Jam shume dakord me shpjegimin e mesiperm:
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Re: KUSH ISHIN THRAKET? LIDHJET ILIRO-THRAKE

#29

Post by ALBPelasgian »

Edhe nje video tjeter i shtohet "kinotekes" se "youtube" me materiale nga ArberiaONLINE:

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